Todd Bentleys influences are rotten which produces rotten fruit..How many false prophetic words can be bleated out in one night….

Folks, this man is all over the place when it comes to Gods word as a standard..I do not want to seem harsh, but I am amazed at how this Hollywood Christianity is affecting so many…..but then this appeals to thousands who do not know God by the word..but only by Emotion…

I could use scripture….but Todd can talk for an hour about himself and HIS worldwide minsitry without using scripture…we need to Watch and Pray and tests the spirits.

Alastair, I agree that pushing people over is not good. But I don’t think we should let it offend us to the extent that we might miss what God is really trying to do even through imperfect, in this case probably simply over-excited, instruments.

I see your point about the over-use of the term “anointing”, which I’m afraid I am also guilty of in my latest post. It is long-standing Pentecostal jargon; other denominations have their own jargon, and it all needs some explanation. But the word is used in a rather similar sense in 1 John 2:27, so we should not be over-critical here. The anointing is of course the presence of the Holy Spirit working in power in and through a person.

On the “pushing over” thing, recently I was prayed for during a meeting by a visiting ministry team from somewhere in England. They very clearly tried to push me over, which had made me very angry. Do people really think they can give God a helping hand? There is a fine line for me between someone blessing me with the laying on of hands, and abusing me by trying to push me over. I wish I wasn’t so upset about this but I get so mad by this faking when God is quite capable of shaking me from foot to toe by Spirit with no more than a light touch of a hand from someone praying.

The charismatic church that my wife’s parents attend in Canada announced a note of caution concerning the Lakeland revival, and I remain convinced that there seems to be much “heat” as well as Light.

At the end of the day, I do long for a genuine indwelling and filling of God’s spirit, and the more miracles Jesus/the Spirit performs the better.

I am concerned at continued talk of “the annointing” as if this mysterious force is doing the healing, rather than Jesus and his Spirit. Perhaps I just can’t handle charismatic lingo.

I expect to be at some re:fresh events but don’t know any details yet.

As for pushing over, I have some more to say which will be in a new post.

Dave W, I of course agree with Drane that we need

to see things from the divine perspective, rather than through the prism of our own personal preferences and prejudices.

I am also concerned at the possibility that

in focusing on this powerful but flawed exhibition we miss where God is at work near us

- but also at the opposite danger that in focusing on the local we miss what God may or may not be doing at the national and international level.

I think and hope that the people who are flocking to places like Lakeland are doing so in the hope of catching something to bring back to their own churches. I know this is true of my own vicar and his wife who are off to Lakeland on Tuesday for about a week. And I hope and pray that they do catch something, something good while avoiding the bad or merely cultural, and that by means of it they are able to bring a real outpouring of the Spirit to revive “where God is at work near us”, in our own church and in the other churches in the town which Dave F mentions.

Scott, I’m not sure any of the other fish in my frying pan are bigger than you. Just being “Reverend” doesn’t make them so in my sight. I have equal time for anyone who contributes helpfully to discussions on this blog. But don’t feel obliged to continue the conversation.

thanks for thinking about sacramentality, change, and mysticism with me. i’ll bow out now, as i see from other comments you have bigger fist to fry.

an excellent post, by the way. or as you undemonstrative brits say, not too bad.

peace–

scott

“Alongside this is a fresh consciousness that some aspects of the culture may need to be challenged in the name of the Gospel, which is creating a new sense of the importance of spiritual discernment so as to see things from the divine perspective, rather than through the prism of our own personal preferences and prejudices.”

Seems to me that this advice applies to every side and every involvement in this situation. I would like to see people applying Spiritual discernment to :-

a) the financing and accountability of the groups involved

b) the style of ministry (revelations without scripture, pushing, careful selection)

c) many reactions (from rushing from all over the world to take the “magic” home to calling everyone in sight a heretic)

d) the denial of the work of the spirit

e) the denial of our own sinfulness and a lack of willingness to accept and celebrate forgiveness and calling forward into ministry of people with a past (like Saul/Paul for example)

f) lack of love & grace shown to others with different gifts, understandings, experiences, cultures to our own.

Quick footwork The sceptic in me sees quite a big difference between those biblical references and chasing all over the world looking for the latest experience.

I have just started “After McDonaldization” by John Drane. A quote from p53 seems relevant:

“… a rediscovery of what it means for the Church to be like Jesus by being truly incarnational. It has enabled Christians to reaffirm that this is God’s world, and therefore there can be no no-go areas for God, so even the most inhospitable reaches of the culture God may be found at work.”

I celebrate the work of the Spirit, I lament how frequently we distort and fail that work. If the Spirit is at work in Todd Bentley then that is worthy of rejoicing. But I am very cautious and concerned that in focusing on this powerful but flawed exhibition we miss where God is at work near us.

I’ve never witnessed any Toronto people pushing anyone, at least those that have ever visited Finland. In fact, my experience of a PIH church in Finland is that there was clear direction of putting off pressure on physical manifestations and emphasis on the inner work of the Holy Spirit, and certainly no one ever pushed to fall down though that was also welcome as well as any physical manifestations, but they were not the main point.

Greetings from Mimosa