Comments on: Peter and Doris Wagner on Todd Bentley

By: Bert

Bert — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 03:01:48 +0000

I am amazed that people who are prophetic and apostolic can work so closely with the likes of Bentley and Haggard, endorse them and be completely shocked when they fall. I am saddened and wonder about every ones discernment in these types of matters. I must pray for grace for all of us as we try to discern who to follow and who we should align ourselves with in ministry. THe ones who fall and the ones who endorse them, are sadly bunched into one pile in the eyes of the world and the church. Help us all, Lord!

By: PVikki

PVikki — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 01:56:37 +0000

I have read many of the comments posted here and my heart aches for a brother who has so much to give to the body of Christ. My concern is that so many are talking but how many are praying? We must pray for our brothers and sisters and not criticize and judge as the world does. Just remember, “but for the grace of God, there go I”.

By: DuncanC

DuncanC — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:11:48 +0000

Re. Chris E’s comments.
God likes us hot or cold. If we are lukewarm (on the fence) he seems to send testing (shake the fence) until we choose one way or the other. We know that testing refines our faith. I’ve seen testing shake nominal Christians into choosing what they are really committed to believing, just as it appears to shake nominally healed peopel into choosing what they are really committed to believing. There’s no point shaking the fence if the person isn’t on it so people fully committed in faith to their healing (and, yes, I appreciate that there’s a great mystery about the substance of faith that I only have partial answers to) don’t need testing – there’s nothing to test. The same goes for those firmly committed to believing in their salvation (e.g. when was the last time the enemy tried to give you doubts over the substitution of Christ?). But to those who are just dipping their toes in the pool of Siloam for the first time, God, who loves an opportunity to refine our faith, sends us a mixture of encouragement and challenge to move us on. Some fail and get to have another go later. It’s the normal process of sanctification and we see the same process in ourselves as we, in our early years (hopefully) learn to resist impure thoughts, slander,lying etc.
The lady I mentioned in the wheelchair had medically attested changes but they were reversed and she ended up worse than before. The problem with (God) keeping human free will sacrosanct so that they alone are responsible is that you don’t just go and steamroller them into being healed if it’s not what they really want. And if relapsing can make people worse (Jesus-demon returns with 7 more) then maybe it would be better for a loving and responsible God to refine someone’s faith to a level that can sustain their healing before healing them. (speculation)

By: Peter Kirk

Peter Kirk — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:38:41 +0000

Thank you, Mihkel. I hope and pray that there will indeed be the needed revival in Estonia, and that the work in Lakeland will continue in some form, not dependent on Todd, in many parts of the world.

By: Mihkel_from_Estonia

Mihkel_from_Estonia — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:55:37 +0000

Thanks Peter, for this most exhaustive source of latest information about Todd Bentley I have found on the Internet. The Spirit has told me 4 things about the Florida outpouring: (1) it was genuine by Todd Bentley; (2) it is God’s last grace proposal for Estonia and hard times will come for Estonia unless her spiritual leaders will receive it’s Spirit; (3) we had similar revival in Tallinn in the late 1970s where people all over the Soviet Union got healed that ended because some of it’s leaders were afraid of the unpredictable way the Holy Spirit works and the same is true for the board of Fresh Fire Ministries and the actual reason of discarding Todd Bentley; (4) the revivals work as waves and although the one of Lakeland is over those with clean hands and pure hearts who received the impartation can later be used by God for preaching, healing and resurrecting in some other places of the Earth.

By: Chris E

Chris E — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:52:41 +0000

Peter -

Chris, for some biblical teaching on how people who are healed can end up in an even worse state if they then do the wrong thing, see John 5:14 and Matthew 12:43-45.

In neither case is the problem the sort of ‘half-doubts’ that Duncan is talking about (which isn’t even unbelief – but closer to Paul#’s sentiments in Romans 7).

Whereas he seems to be advocating a sort of mind-over-matter that leaves very little space for grace.

What’s the point of a grace that does not acknowledge the fact that people are flawed and human? That’s exactly why we need grace.

By: Peter Kirk

Peter Kirk — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:24:51 +0000

Chris, for some biblical teaching on how people who are healed can end up in an even worse state if they then do the wrong thing, see John 5:14 and Matthew 12:43-45.

By: Chris E

Chris E — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:51:43 +0000

Duncan –

We teach new converts the importance of being steadfast through testing and I see no biblical reason why we should expect it to be different with other acts of grace. It may be that the very act of analysing an act of grace can affect it’s veracity.

I don’t think you can equate being steadfast with ‘never having any doubts’. Neither can you equate being analysis (in the Berean sense) with ‘unbelief’ (I imagine you are basing your reasoning on a particular reading of Matthew 13).

Extending your argument; to analyse or show evidences of ones salvation would be the quickest way of losing it.

The particular examples you pick sound more to me like examples of psychosomatic healing rather than a miracle performed by a living and gracious God.

By: Gentle Wisdom » Godblogs event in London

Gentle Wisdom » Godblogs event in London — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:44:10 +0000

[...] Thomas of the evangelical alliance has been posting comments on this blog and at least one other about a get-together for bloggers. He doesn’t give the date, which is [...]

By: Ben

Ben — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:34:19 +0000

Just in case anyone thinks Dutch Sheets is not a real
person, here is his biography.

Dutch Sheets is the Senior Pastor of Freedom Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, where he has pastored for thirteen years. He has served on the faculty of Christ for the Nations Institute, now serves as an instructor for Destiny Bible School and is a guest lecturer for Wagner Leadership Institute. He serves on many ministry boards and is a best selling author with Regal Books (a division of Gospel Light). He travels across America and other nations challenging believers for passionate prayer and world-changing revival.